Chrissy 0:00
Welcome to The Dogs of our lives. Podcast with me. Chrissy Messick, this is where traditional training transforms into true connection and understanding with our dogs. As a certified dog trainer, behavior consultant and interspecies communicator with a background in high level sports medicine, I bring a unique functional approach to understanding our dogs by integrating body, mind, heart and soul, join us for insights, stories and practical wisdom that will help you prevent problems before they start and build a deeper bond with your animal companion. Before we get into today's episode, let me ask you a question, how well do you actually know your dog? Why not take my quiz to find out? You can find the link in the show notes. Now let's dig in. Today, I'm talking with Marissa Martino, who is a dog behavior consultant, but she's also a human coach as well, and so she ends up supporting both ends of the leash. And Marissa is the first person that I met that got me into dog training, because I went to one of our workshops. And in this episode, we talk about shelter work a lot, and what that looks like, and how we're navigating it and how it needs to change. And we talk about what it looks like to work with the human end of the leash. And so we talk about some really good nuggets in here, and I hope you can take something away that really helps you and your dog. Marissa Martino, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to get get going on a conversation with you.
Marissa 1:25
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Chrissy 1:28
Okay, so weknow each other. You were my first connection to get involved with dog training. I don't know if you knew that, but you did a class in Boulder, I think it was on aggression in dogs or something. And so I just went because I was interested in learning about it. And then we were talking afterwards. And then you're like, let me connect you with somebody at the new Humane Society, Anita. And so I went to her, and then I just got involved in the training and behavior center, and then it just took off from there. So thank you for
Marissa 2:05
it's funny. I was like, how do we know each other? Because we've known each other for so long. Then I thought back to that moment where you came up to me after the class and we chatted for a while. Yes, that was really fun for me to remember that.
Chrissy 2:20
So thank you for that. But so can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you live, and what you're doing, and the puppy that's in your life right now?
Marissa 2:29
Yes, my little girl, so she's, she's two and a half. She's two and a half. Now, actually, that's crazy. How did that happen? You were one of the reasons why she's here in my life. But we can, we can get to that at some point. But yeah, so I live in Santa Cruz, California. I just moved here from Colorado about nine months ago, and I'm absolutely madly in love with this place and this town and the ocean to the point where people bust my chops about it. I'm like, you know, I'm always so excited about seeing a starfish or, like, just like, all the cool shit that happens near oceans, and so people bust my chops about it, but I'm very expressive and excited about it, and so is my dog. Like I was telling you, she rolled in Dead seal today, and that was super fun. So we're both really loving it here. And Peru is, like I said, two and a half. She's a predominantly Great Pyrenees mix, really social girl. She actually is, I would say a lot of the reason why I have friends here is because she's really social, and she meets everyone in the neighborhood and stops and waits for people to say hi, and so she's introduced me to some people on my journey here, which I'm really grateful for.
Chrissy 3:45
I love it. So Marissa, what are you doing right now? So
Marissa 3:49
I have two parts to my business. The first part is I do a lot of shelter behavior consulting for variety of animal shelters on the west coast as of right now, primarily focus on organizations that either have behavior staff members and need additional leadership support, or they don't have behavior staff on site. And so I'm helping them helping meet that need by being a virtual and then in person consultant. So I work on culture solutions, because we all know that animal sheltering can be really hard, and the behavior of the humans is just as important as supporting the behavior of the animals. And so I work in that area. A lot do a lot of behavior program development and support, and a lot of what we call an animal sheltering behavior pathway planning. So how does the animal and how can we support the animal from intake to outcome, basically. So that's my animal sheltering side of the business. And then the other side of the business is I work privately with pet parents that are predominantly working with a trainer, and they're seeing results however they're feeling like their mindset or the. Way that they're showing up in the relationship is potentially getting in the way, or they're feeling a little stunted in that area, and so they're wanting some emotional support for the human end of the leash while they're navigating a behavior challenge with their dog. And so they're predominantly working with trainers, and the trainers are addressing the needs of the animal, also most likely the person as well. But then I come in and we do a lot of deep coaching work to see what patterns, particularly mindset patterns, are getting in the way and then impacting the behavior plan. And so that work's been super cool for me to just really dive into and be a part of. And I'm no longer doing dog training, which has felt like the right move in my career as of right now.
Chrissy 5:46
Yeah, and I think that shift is super normal, because when you're doing dog training and behavior consulting, part of that is working with the human. So that's a natural shift to go ahead and do that, because I know when I'm working with the dog. When I have clients, I'm also working with a human. So it's just, is a natural part of the process. When you're doing your shelter work, you say you do virtual and in person, it's just shelters all I mean, you're traveling to different places, right? Yes.
Marissa 6:15
So this year, I've had four shelter clients, and in Washington, Hawaii, California and Nevada, and so I have been working with the particular shelter in Hawaii for the last two and a half years, which has been really cool. So I've been to Hawaii like five times for work, which is just amazing. And was a runner up that I could move to prior to Santa Cruz, but yes, it didn't make it. It's a little far, so a little far for me. But can you tell
Chrissy 6:46
us a little bit about your professional journey, kind of how you where you started and how you ended up? Here,
Marissa 6:51
my story is kind of funny, because I say it's not the traditional dog trainer story. Well, I went to I went to school for design. I got a job at Martha Stewart Living. I was designing home furnishings in New York City. I was very excited.
Chrissy 7:08
I don't know if I even knew that. Actually, you didn't know that? Yeah, no, that's hilarious.
Marissa 7:13
It's an interesting start. And I just remember so random. I didn't I had a family dog. We got a dog at six, when I was 16. I mean, I liked animals. I wasn't like, you know, I mean, I had a relationship with him, but I wasn't like, Oh, I'm gonna get dogs and I'm gonna train dogs. Like, I was not like that at all. And I went to college, got this job, and then I was living in New York City, and I was like, wow, there's a lot of dogs in the city. I wonder if there's like, careers with dogs like so random. I don't know why I thought this. I just I reached out to a variety of different careers, like groomers and daycares and trainers and dog walkers and all the things. And this one trainer got back to me that did the Academy for dog trainers at the San Francisco SPCA. So grateful. I landed in a positive reinforcement lap of a trainer. I mean, really, yeah, we went to coffee. I'll never forget, like, it was like in Greenwich Village in New York City. We met for coffee. We met for three hours. I stepped out of the cafe, called my dad on my like, flip phone back then, and was like, I am moving to San Francisco, and I'm going to do the San Francisco Academy for dog trainers, because back then it was at the it was at the San Francisco SPCA,
Chrissy 8:27
and for people who don't know, like now, it's the Academy for dog trainers with the Jane Donaldson's final course. Yeah, yeah. And that's where you you started back then.
Marissa 8:38
Yes, thank you. Year and a half later, saved up all my money from from Martha Stewart and movedto San Francisco.
Chrissy 8:46
Thanks, Martha,
Marissa 8:46
literally, and my parents. I mean, my my dad and my mom were always like, what like this, like then, I mean, they, they love what I do, but they were like at the time, like, are you serious? Like, are you really gonna just move? I'm so grateful that I did that in person two reasons because. One, that started my love affair with California. But two, it was part of a shelter, and so it was attached to the San Francisco SPCA. There was this big training room we worked with the shelter dogs during that two month program, and that's when I fell in love with sheltering. And I was like, Oh, wow, I want to be part of, like, an organization that's got all this programming and all of this, you know, opportunity for behavior related support. And so that's really how I fell in love with sheltering. And then I applied for a job at Boulder Humane Society, which is where you and I met. I've been in sheltering ever since Boulder, humane East Bay, SPCA in California, and then the Denver dumb friends league in Colorado. And so all along the side of sheltering, I've always done a part time private practice because I really wanted to still keep my hands in training and working with clients. And so that leads me
Chrissy 9:59
to. Today, amazing. It's always fun to hear everybody's journey. Yeah, so you mentioned this a little bit, but just going back in time, in your childhood, growing up, what did you learn, values, beliefs and attitudes towards animals, and has that changed over the years? Yeah,
Marissa 10:15
I love that you asked this question. It's so cool. I think I always, I always really liked animals, but we weren't, like, a big animal family, like, I remember I wanted hamsters, and my dad was like, I don't know, and I remember I wanted a dog, and my mom was conveniently allergic for many years, you know? And, yeah, and then all of a sudden, like, my sister asked for a dog. So she was 12. I was 16, and she asked for a dog. And then my mom was surprisingly not allergic anymore, and we went and got a loss of so from a pet store. Oh, yeah, from the mall, pet store in the mall, French, yeah. Murphy was his name, and he came home and lived with us, and I, I mean, I have relationship with him, but it wasn't again. It's not your traditional story where it's like, dot, like animals were my best friends or or like I was training from a very young age. It wasn't that, you know, I really liked dolphins and whales, and I would do projects on them, what when I was younger. But it really wasn't until that like, struck of serendipity in New York City where I sort of was like, Oh, wow. I could, like, do something with this, or I can, I could maybe learn more about this, or, like, there's a whole world out there dedicated to this. So I think that, to answer your question, my love of animals has deepened in a way that is really profound throughout my career. So like, the love was almost there, or was always there, but like, it's really gotten to be very profound throughout my adult life. Yeah,
Chrissy 11:53
that's that's awesome. I feel like you are definitely into growth and personal development, and I feel like you've always learned from animals, and it just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Yeah, they're
Marissa 12:06
such gifts for us. I mean, really, yeah,
Chrissy 12:08
huge teachers. I don't even have to ask this question, but I need to ask for the audience, dogs that have influenced you, personally and professionally.
Marissa 12:20
I know you know all my pups? Um, yes, so I've only had two dogs as an adult, right? So I've had so my first dog was Sully. I got him when I was 25 again, also like two years into being a trainer working at Boulder humane studies, still didn't get a dog of my own, because at the time, I wasn't living in a pet friendly house, and I finally moved, and I was finally able to get my dog, and he was him in conjunction with my therapist at the time, she started pulling so many parallels to my personal growth process, and it was like my first entry into therapy, my first entry into like, feeling depressed and anxious. And she used my career as a dog trainer to help me draw parallels to what I was going through my personal life. So I owe a lot to her, right? Yeah, and Sully. He gave me a lot of great opportunity he would react on leash to the side of other dogs. And it's so funny. Like, it like his reactivity then, in comparison to, like, what we deal with with reactivity today, it was, like, really mild. Like, his reactivity was really not that big of a deal. I think dogs are struggling, right? People are struggling. Dogs, like behavior issues feel bigger, bigger. Yeah, bigger and heavier. And so he was reactive, and so was I right. And so it's a great combo to get everyone's nervous systems all fired up. So he was a really great teacher in how to look at how I show up in relationship, how I'm like, quick to blame and quick to get frustrated and quick to want to control the outcome, control the dog, control the person, control myself. Like it's just a really big blame cycle, right? And in order, you know, like, it's so painful to feel whatever it is that I'm feeling. And so I like, I'm going to grab a few of my really maladaptive coping strategies, and then, boom, we've got, like, a disconnection, disconnection between Sally and I, Peru on the flip side, gosh, Peru teaches me how to be with joy, which I feel there's one of my parts right now. I do a lot of parts work. One of my parts right now is like, don't say that out loud, because, like, people have, people have really challenging behavior, animals, right? And like, Peru is not that. I mean, that's not true. We did deal with, like, several months of isolation, distress and whatnot. But like, she is a really happy, social girl. She's so. Sensitive but super resilient, and she teaches me how to be with ease, like how to accept and receive ease in my life, instead of making everything so hard and complicated. And I think that's such a beautiful gift that she offers me is like, yeah, just just, just choose easy or swim in your gratitude, right? Just like feel so good receiving something that's easeful, especially because, like everything around it can, like our life, our lives can be really challenging, right? So really being able to to grab that ease and celebrate it. Yeah, I
Chrissy 15:38
love that. The insights that you've seen with, you know, Sully and Peru, that's really cool to see. Thank you. So the world of dog training, I think, is slowly evolving to a more holistic approach. And what I mean by that is looking at all like the underlying factors, like pain, GI issues, hormone type stuff, all the areas, and not necessarily just the behavior. The behavior is the symptoms. So when we're looking at this approach and supporting the human and dog, looking at these underlying factors, so in your one on one work, are you finding any common threads when working with, you know, dog families, and I know you're not doing that very much anymore, but in the past, and you know what you are doing now. What have you seen? Any common threads?
Marissa 16:26
I would say my particular audience is either pet professionals, or it's what I call like pet plus, like pet parents that really dedicate themselves to their dog, like their dog is their children. And it's like, borderline hobbyist, right? Like, they're like, really love behavior. They're they're really immersed in this, and they really want to do right by their animal. And it's really beautiful. And because there's this weight, whether you're a pet professional, and you want to get this, like, you know a thing or two about this, and you want to do this well for your animals and for your clients, or there's this weight. As a pet parent, you're like, oh my gosh, if only I can figure it out and make my dog be really happy all the time, right? There feels like there's, there's this pressure, internal pressure in both audience members that causes a lot of internal turmoil, right? And what my practice is all about, in terms of right now, is noticing that that way of thinking or that way of being shows up in our behavior, right? So if I'm thinking that I need to get this right, or else I'm a failure, right, my behavior may change and I may operate in a different way, because I've got this really high risk thought pattern that is sort of like, this equals this equals I'm a failure. So what I find is that the people that I work with right now and in the past as well, when I used to combine coaching and training, I'm still seeing this type of person that's like, high drive, perfectionist. They really care about their animal. They are not showing nearly as much of that care to themselves. Really strong, inner critic, and all of that like, gets in their way, gets in their way in a variety of different ways. Like, again, it could impact the training plan. They just don't do any training. Or if they have a regression, it sets them back entirely right. Like, and then they they freeze. Or, then they may, may get frustrated with themselves, with the process their dog, whatever. And so it's really about giving the human end of the leash skills to deal with what's going on internally. So, yeah, so those are the themes that I'm seeing show up with the type of people that I'm that I'm working with and like what they're struggling with. Yeah,
Chrissy 18:54
I feel like the culture right now, there's so much pressure for pet parents for their dog to be obedient, quote, unquote obedient to be good. You know, all these things, and then it puts so much pressure on the human, and it forces behaviors that the humans don't even want to do, versus working through it together and giving everybody that ease of working together. Like you don't have to get it done right now. Let's just take our time and work on it. So, yeah, I can see that culture is a huge part of that pressure.
Marissa 19:29
Yeah, and I think that, like, what I found when I was doing training and coaching, I was doing a little bit of coaching, there just isn't that time to, like, go into what is truly happening on the human end of the leash, which is why I built the service, right? So it's like you can talk about what you need to do and what the tangible skills with the dog look like with your trainer. And hopefully your trainer is supporting you from like an encouragement standpoint, and being curious with you about like what might be getting in the way, but if you need to unpack what's getting in the way. Because it's most likely ingrained thought patterns from when you were really young. That's where we can go in and take a look at how those particular thought patterns are impacting you today. As a coach, I'm not someone that's going back in time and unpacking why you have those thought patterns that would be a therapist, but as a coach, I'm saying, okay, they're here now. They're impacting you now, the same way that we do with dogs. Okay, your dog is exhibiting reactive behavior. Now, what do we want to do moving forward? Right? How do we want to help, support and give you tools? Now, I found that I didn't have enough time to really dig in to, like, understand what's going on for the person, and it's been really cool to have that space for me as a practitioner, but also for the client to then show up to their training plans with a different way of being or a different mindset. Yeah, I
Chrissy 20:52
love it. So you do a lot of work supporting shelters. That's your main gig right now. What changes are you helping to create to help shelters solve problems and eliminate stress. And do you see the shelter rescue approach changing in the future at all?
Marissa 21:07
Yeah, so right now with sheltering, we have a severe lack of behavior professionals. Yeah, we actually have a lot of problems in sheltering right now, but we have a lack of behavior professionals. I think a lot of people in animal sheltering are burning out because the conditions are really challenging right now, and I'll speak to that in a second. So I was a behavior coordinator or a behavior director the last 12 years of my career. How I'm contributing is basically being that virtual leadership support, right? And so we are taking a look at how decisions are being made, how we are doing risk assessment, how we're supporting animals from getting them from point A to point B, how to handle them safely, like all of these pieces, looking at it from the animals welfare and also the people's welfare, it's really important to me that both of them are included. Some people would argue that it's really just for the animal. The animals. And I'm, I'm we are animals too, and that's really important, especially
Chrissy 22:07
if the humans are the ones that are taking care of the animal 100% if, if the humans don't get support in the shelter, they're just going to go away and then what's left, you know? So I agree with you. It has to be both, yeah,
Marissa 22:19
and like I find that it's easy for people to want to support an animal because maybe the animal has provided unconditional love and has not hurt them in the way that people have hurt them in the past. And so there is a lot of it's a lot of trauma in this industry in a variety of different ways, and it's really painful for the caretakers and also for people volunteering, donating, the community. I mean, it's there. There's a lot here. What's happening in animal sheltering right now is that we're seeing a really big increase in animals that are coming in, and we're seeing a reduction in people adopting, and we're definitely seeing a reduction in people adopting project dogs and behavior related cases like they used to back before COVID. I was behavior manager at Denver dump friends league back then, and we saw, I mean, I could not believe the behavior cases that were getting adopted, like people were just wanting to come in and they wanted a project dog and they wanted to help support and that's not the case now, given so many factors in our society, and so that's been really devastating on the people and the animals in sheltering. I was just at a conference, and we were talking about, like, how can we get the community involved? Because this is not just a shelter problem. This is a community oriented problem. This is the animals from that community, right? And so how can we look at things like intake, diversion, spending, spending our funds to keep animals and pets together, to maintain that human animal bond, instead of us taking the animal in and doing a surgery and adopting it out to somebody, can't we just do the surgery for you and have you keep your animal Right? So there's a lot of intake diversion programs and a lot of like, being really transparent with the community and being like, this is a larger problem. Like, how can we get more pet friendly housing? Like, there's large problems in animal sheltering, and then there's conversations being had to help move the needle. But it's been, it's been changing since COVID. I mean, COVID was a time where a lot of animals got fostered and adopted, and that was great, and then there has been a significant downturn in that in the last few years. So if you are listening, fostering would be an excellent opportunity to support your local shelter. Yeah, I think that there we're in, like, uncharted territory, or sometimes feels like an animal sheltering, like we've slid back a few years, like a few decades, really, to a time when when we didn't have as many resources, because we actually don't right now, which is heartbreaking for those of us that have been in sheltering that. Have seen so much innovative change. Yeah, it's kind of, it's a hard time right now. And so my role, or how I look at my role, is, how can I be a consultant in a fresh set of eyes to help people wade out of, like, sort of, the murky waters that that they find themselves in, in the day to day, really trying to support from that aspect? Yeah,
Chrissy 25:21
and I really think the economy so unstable right now, and I think that makes a huge impact on people being able to keep their dog and foster and so I think that's another aspect too.
Marissa 25:32
Yes, it's heartbreaking for everyone. Honestly, like, it's kind of a tricky time. Do you
Chrissy 25:38
see any like change or in the shelter approach in the future. I mean, you were talking about more community effort, different kind of unique programs. I don't know. I'm just thinking of ways that it might change. Yeah, now I think,
Marissa 25:54
I mean, a lot of people are having conversations about it. I mean, I do think we have to go back to, like, some of our basics, like high volume spay neuter, that is a basic way to maintain and reduce the overpopulation problem that we have right now. And so like, some of the answers to this solution may not be like innovation. They may be like going back to animal sheltering and like community oriented programs, like going back to our staples. And then some of it, I do think, is innovative in the sense that, like, yeah, how do we get the community involved? And, like, how do we actually ask for help, not, not just sort of like, hey, we need, we need foster parents. It's like, how can we actually get people in our communities understanding that we're in? Like, it's an animal sheltering crisis, is what it's being called right now. And so how do we talk to people without scaring people, but but also being like, can you help us be part of the solution? Because we can't carry it on our own. Like Animal Shelter professionals shouldn't have to carry it on their own. They're they're a public oriented service. So I think it will probably be a combination of, like, going back to our basics and figuring out pathway planning and how to prevent overcrowding. And then I think other things will be, how can we bring the community in and have them be a part of this conversation? And how do we address, you know, a really large problem right now is addressing the lack of veterinary shortage, which Colorado is doing some interesting things with schooling and education and and so, yeah, how do we bring more professionals into this field and then also support them and prevent them from burning out? Because that's that's a big problem too.
Chrissy 27:37
You know, I just had a thought. In addition to the spay and neuter, what about shelters? And this is part of the community work, but shelters work educating people on that have dogs that that are thinking, oh, I want to breed my dog because my dog is cute, or oh, I want to breed my dog because I want to make money, or working with breeders, because you see so many purebred dogs in the shelter too, like these days as well. And so I'm wondering if that I'm just brainstorming here, but yeah, that's, you know, that just came to me as a as an idea. Yeah,
Marissa 28:15
there, there are some organizations, whether it's an animal shelter or it's a high level organization, like a national organization, that have lawyers and lobbyists on staff to to figure out ways to support that, or, like, make some of those things illegal in certain states, and not to say that we don't, we don't want responsible breeders, because we also want them to but I'm thinking more like irresponsible breeders and puppy mills and backyard breeders and things of that nature. So there are a lot of people working towards like that, that effort. So
Chrissy 28:50
we are both very passionate about helping people create healthy relationships with their animal companions. So what would you say are some important aspects to think about when implementing behavior change while, at the same time enhancing the human canine bond and relationships. Yeah, from the coaching perspective, I guess the
Marissa 29:09
way that I think about it is that our thoughts are going to impact our behavior, our behavior is going to impact our dog's behavior, and then we're in this loop, right? We're in this loop together around that. And so I think that there's this big pie, right? And in the pie are all these skills that we have to teach, mostly the human handler, right? And then they're teaching the dog, right? But there are dog skills, there's handler skills, there's welfare education, there's, you know, management education, there's training plan, there's, like, all of these skills over here that are really tangible, and then there are all these other skills over here and that I work on in terms of, like, supporting the mindset. And so I do think that you can as a trainer. Or go into someone's home, teach them a management strategy and boom, the problem is solved. The relationship between the dog and the human is way better. And brava, you're done, right? But I would argue you're done until something else crops up. And so I'm not interested in teaching people just to fix something. I'm interested in teaching people to fix something and also build emotional capacity to hold when things are not going to be fixed, or when things can't be fixed, or when things are hard. And so that's my interest, right? And so if I could control Sully's behavior or control Peru's behavior or manage it, great, then my Gremlins or my internal dialog doesn't get activated. Great, that is a win. However, that's not how life works, because eventually something's going to fall apart, and then I'm going to get activated, and then I can go down a spiral, right? And that spiral could be directed towards me or or the animal. And so I'm personally interested in building people's capacity at their pace, right like so I'm working with the client's nervous system the same way I would with a dog's nervous system. I'm doing it at their pace to help them expand. And then most of the time, what we're doing is we're doing parts work, so we're identifying all the different voices that they have that show up to the training session, or show up to the situation when the baby gate fell down, and then now we had, like an inner household scuffle or whatever. And so I think all of those pieces are important because, like I said, those, those first many pieces to help support the animal, that can be great like that is plenty of work for somebody and their animal to do. And I like that is amazing. And if you're interested in going deeper, right, let's look at your end and see how you respond to certain things, and see if that there is, like, a way for you to expand where you currently are, and if you don't want to, then cool, you don't like you don't you don't have to to answer your question. It's like, I feel like all of those skills are really important to have. And then we and then I meet, or we should all meet everyone where they're at at any given moment. Yeah.
Chrissy 32:17
And so it's building skills in the human and the dog, as well as resilience in the human and the dog. Yeah, yeah. Can you think of a case or anything where our audience might find it helpful to, like, hear a practical example of that is, does something come to your mind? Yeah,
Marissa 32:35
I was thinking of like, I'm so all my cases are confidential, given the nature of coaching, and so I decided I was I was like, Okay, I'm going to use Peru as an example. So I have a pretty strong internal critic, and I have a pretty strong internal anxious part of me. And so if I get anxious about a situation or I'm feeling on unnerved, I get activated. And then there's a few other parts, like my organizer part might come in, my shamer might come in because they're trying to fix or control the situation because, like, the anxiety is uncomfortable for them. So for example, when we were doing her isolation distress training, I was really anxious, because I hired a trainer, hired a great trainer, because I was like, in the process of, of also, like, getting ready to prepare to move across the country, and I was really stressed about so many things. So, like, I'm trigger stacked, right? I don't have the capacity. I'm like, Great, I'm gonna ask for help, which was such a gift that I gave myself. So hired a trainer. We went through the whole process, and I was so anxious about getting her to the point that I could leave her home alone when I moved to this new place, we had no idea. There's so many variables. I didn't know. I was super anxious, and I would do weird shit because of that. I would like, push in the training session, and then I would get really upset that I knew that, you know, that should have worked. And I would, and I would get very upset, and I would like, shame the process, and I would shame Peru, then I would shame myself. And like, I mean, I would just really spiral. And it wasn't until I wound up saying, like, I need additional help, like, I need support from my friends to like, sort of pull me out of this dialog, because I was sort of spiraling again, because I was so over emotional threshold, because of the behavior concern, but also because I was, I was preparing to move, and there were so many variables I didn't know. So my anxious one was so activated, right? And so either I was mapping out every little thing, my organizer was like making spreadsheets to make me feel safe, or my shamer was like, You're such an idiot. Why did you why did you push during that session? Or. You're such an idiot, why didn't you reach out for help sooner or like you created this problem, and you're a trainer. How did this even all of this? Right? And so all of that led to me not listening to myself when I spoke to the veterinarian about her behavior concerns. And I had requested for meds in the beginning, and that was denied me, not trusting myself in other situations. It led to like me, drawing out the training process. Like to me, yes, I had support, and yes, I had a training plan, and also I was kind of a mess, and I was the one carrying out the training plan. So grateful that I had a trainer that, you know, I called her and was just like I was very transparent and very hopeless. And so she helped me. And then all of my friends that know me really deeply and well, and are also trainers were were able to provide me with my own coaching in a way like they were able to to sort of help me take a step back. And so that is an example of me using a situation as a learning opportunity, right? Like I was like, Oh, wow, I'm like, overriding my intuition as a trainer in some aspects, I'm letting this veterinarian kind of steamroll what I'm saying and, and that's interesting. Do I do that in other parts of my life. Oh, turns out I do and like, so there was a lot of opportunity here, like, when I could actually zoom out and not be so stressed about it. And then guess what? I i did the training plan when I got to Santa Cruz, really different, and I went with my gut, and I was able to leave her home alone within two weeks. So your nervous system and your mindset is just as important as the animal. And I'm not saying that we need to be perfect, because we will never be. Don't listen to trainer that's like, oh, well, you just need to relax and your dog will trust you. It's if you can't relax because you have dialog that has or like monolog that has been playing in your head since you were a young kid, that doesn't happen overnight. The same way, like dogs behavior doesn't change overnight, right? So, yeah, I have a lot of grace and compassion for the human end of the leash because we're carrying out like these high stakes behavior plans.
Chrissy 37:17
Think that's a great way to hear you talk about behavior change, but also pay attention to the relationship. And you know how the human experience, the human emotional experience, is affecting the relationship, and how you're working with your dog. So I think that's a great example of connecting both of them together. Thank
Marissa 37:36
you. I do want to say one thing about it too, yeah, such a gift. When she was experiencing anxiety that was so hard for me to be with, I wonder if it's just as hard for me to be with my own anxiety. And turns out it was she was the mirror of Ooh, like I don't want to see her anxiety. I don't want to feel my anxiety either. Not like I'm working towards this lifetime where I'm like, yay. I'm just swimming in my anxiety. It's Everything's cool, but I do want to build my capacity to be with it, because it's going to come up. It's what we do with it. When it does come up, is part of our healing process. The same with dogs, right? It's like when a dog has a big feeling reaction, like the other day, she had a big feeling reaction to another dog on leash, and I was like, Oh, wow. Lots of feelings are coming up. It's what we do with that, not that it came up, right? And so it's, it's how we respond, or how we prevent it, or how we provide support. I can't not see the mirrors now and like, the parallels. Yeah, I
Chrissy 38:40
know I always talk about so if my dog is reacting towards something, trying to communicate how she's feeling, if I can't in my own person, if I can't respond to my own feelings, and, you know, feel my own feelings, how am I ever going to help her? You know what I mean? I have to integrate things in myself and work on my responses and my feelings. And I have to be so grounded, so that when my dog ginger, if she's responding to a dog or reacting to a dog, I am like rock solid, and I can think clearly, because I've already dealt with my own feelings. So I know I'm not trying to deal with hers and mine. I think it's like a it is a mirror. Yeah, it's a mirror very well said. You know, I do animal communication, I know, yeah, and energy work. So what are your thoughts about this? Like, I mean, you're, I love talking with this to people who are super grounded in science and energy work and so it's, it's a really, I love talking people who are grounded in both. So what are your thoughts about this?
Marissa 39:48
I am so Woo. So I am all about it. I mean, part of the reason why I have Pru is my dog is because we did a session before I adopted her. And. And I think you also did a reading for Sully, many, many years ago. And so dead on, so talented and and you were so dead on about the joy piece, like you could just kept saying that. She kept saying, like, she
Chrissy 40:12
was very persistent about, oh my gosh, she's,
Marissa 40:14
yeah, she was, she, she just, and she asked me to, like, take a chance on her, like, through you. And I was just like weeping, and because I was unsure. And so I had fostered a million dogs, and was in like, a grief stricken dating frenzy of who's going to be my next dog, right? And so I, I remember, like, speaking to you, and our good friend Emily wolf was like, you need, you need to speak to Chrissy, like you got to get your shit together and speak to Christy. Yeah. I mean, I believe in all I believe in all that stuff. Like, I get why people wouldn't, and also, like, gosh, like, isn't it way cooler to believe in magic? And like, anytime I've ever engaged with a practitioner like that, it's only their validated what I knew. And so that's such a beautiful gift, or it's provided me with a healthy perspective, or it's kind of magic. And like this, life can be hard sometimes, like, why not have a little magic? I
Chrissy 41:07
think science is catching up with this, with people of 1000s of years have already known intuitively, and so I think science is kind of making its way toward it. But like you, I like to do it and then validate it in a way that can be confirmed, either by a veterinarian or by the human or by the behavior of the dog. So it's super fun, and we're just going to keep going with it. Yeah.
Marissa 41:34
I mean, I love that you're doing that and that you're leaning into that and just owning that. That is a gift of yours because it is Thank you. You're welcome. So
Chrissy 41:43
is there anything weighing on your mind or a nugget of wisdom that you'd like to share with our audience?
Marissa 41:49
Yeah. I mean, I think maybe just an invitation to find one funny, inspiring or lovely or amazing reason why you love your dog each day, especially if you've got a dog with behavior concerns. I mean, our dogs are they're such a gift, right? And so I really like to ask people that question, like, What's your favorite thing? Or what do you love about your dog? Or what are you loving about your dog right now? Or what's alive in you about your dog right now? Like that, like just asking yourself that each day. And because I think we all deserve to feel that level of like joy and gratitude and connection and so could be a fun little imitation for people to play with. Yeah,
Chrissy 42:29
I think that's great. I think I would pull out nuggets that you've shared. Is one, listen to your gut, listen to your intuition, that's okay. And then two, try to look inside yourself. Don't avoid your process and what you're feeling, but actually pay attention to what's going on in your body as well. Yeah, I think those would be two things to pull from what you've said today.
Marissa 42:54
Yeah, you're really wise, you meaning the collective you know, know that you're wise, yeah? Yes,
Chrissy 43:00
definitely. Alright. So you have things going on, what's the best way for people to connect with you? If you know they want to do some one on one work, or they want to contact you about shelter work, what's the best way they can connect with you?
Marissa 43:14
Yeah, so everything's on my website. Pause and reward that's all spelled out.com. Or you can find me on Instagram, pause and reward. Okay,
Chrissy 43:24
perfect. Well, thank you for being here with us and sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom. Thank
Marissa 43:29
you so much for having me. This was really fun. I appreciate you and your time today.
Chrissy 43:34
Thank you for joining us today. I hope you discovered a valuable nugget you can implement right away with your dog if you enjoyed the episode, please follow rate and share with fellow dog lovers who might benefit. Don't forget to take our How well do you know your dog quiz? You'll find the link in the show notes until next week. Happy tales. You.
