Chrissy 0:00
Chris, welcome back to the dogs lives. And this is season three. I'm Chrissy Messick, and this is our summer working dog series, and this is where we're going to dive deep into the incredible world of dogs who dedicate their lives working alongside humans. So grab your favorite beverage or enjoy listening to this on the road, and let's explore the full spectrum of what it means to care for the dogs who care for all of us, and maybe learn something about ourselves along the way. Today, I'm talking with Niamh Coleman about canine search and rescue. She's been doing it for over 20 years, and so she's quite the expert. It's such a fun topic, and it's truly amazing what dogs and humans can do when we work together as a team and build trust. In this episode, we talk about the different kinds of search and rescue, how Neve got involved with it, and what it takes if you want to get into it seriously or just for fun, to build that bond with your dog. We also talk about the physical, mental and emotional needs that go into working with a search and rescue dog and the training process as well. And of course, we talk about her experiences with her search and rescue dogs and their bond, plus much more. I'm hoping this episode piques your curiosity about different ways to enrich your dog's life and build that bond of trust, or maybe this might be the beginning of you and your dog's journey into search and rescue. Enjoy.
Niamh 1:23
I remember when I first started seeing people doing search and rescue. I first started seeing the dogs, and to me, it looked like magic. Like, how do they get the dogs to do this? Like, that's just it seemed way beyond my capability to do this.
Chrissy 1:38
So hello, Niamh, thank you for being on our show.
Niamh 1:41
Thank you for having me.
Chrissy 1:44
So we're going to talk about some fun stuff, search and rescue, and I can't wait to get it into it. Well, now you said you have two Border Collies living in your house.
Niamh 1:53
Yes, on purpose. I know,
Chrissy 1:59
yeah, we know each other from we're just trying to figure this out. But three years ago, we started working together with another client of mine, doing some stuff. And then that's when I started really learning about search and rescue from you, because that's what your specialty is, is search and rescue. So I thought it'd be great to have you on so we can talk about that. This is our summer working dog series, and so I thought you'd be perfect to have on as a guest.
Speaker 1 2:24
Thank you. Yes, I search and rescue is my passion for sure.
Chrissy 2:28
Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in it.
Speaker 1 2:31
I've been doing it for over 20 years. I have a special needs son who has cerebral palsy. And a long time ago. Oh, my goodness, a long time ago. 1999 we moved to Jackson, hole Wyoming, and I wanted to do something that was a volunteer job, where I would take it seriously and feel like I was contributing. And I thought that if I did something with dog sports, I would end up canceling it, because it would be more important to stay at home with my son and work on therapies or something like that. So I thought that if I had a volunteer job with dogs, it would be an organization would need me, and I would be more likely to follow through, and I could have a career, but a volunteer career, and that would work out and give me flexibility with my kids.
Chrissy 3:32
Awesome. And so now you're living in Idaho, right?
Niamh 3:37
Yes, I am living in northern Idaho, in Sandpoint, so I am way up here. It's very beautiful, very remote, but a great place for my dogs. They love it here.
Chrissy 3:49
Yeah, and so you're part of a search and rescue group out there?
Speaker 1 3:53
Yes, I'm with Bonner County Sheriff's Department. The usual model for search and rescue is that people are part of a sheriff's team, and so there's obviously ground searching and snowmobiles and ATVs, and sometimes swift water, and so you're part of that team that encompasses all of those things. And then I'm canine, so I'm sort of an ancillary specialization within the department,
Chrissy 4:21
and then you were just saying you've gotten called out five times.
Speaker 1 4:25
Yes, since I've been here, we've had several call outs, and frequently you'll get called out, which is great. You know, when people call 911, and they need help, it's good to do that earlier, rather than later. And so we might get turned around about an hour to while we're driving or starting to look for someone, they'll find that person by other means, which is fantastic, and then going out as part of a team. It really helps to have as many resources as possible, especially if it's a wide area that you need.
Chrissy 5:01
can you just tell us a little bit about search and rescue, the different types you'd mentioned, swift water and ground and ATV? Can you just tell us a little bit about what search and rescue is in the different types? Like a little more detail?
Speaker 1 5:17
So for canine search and rescue, we work with ground teams, but we will go out and search areas that it would be more efficient to search with a dog than a bunch of people walking side by side. We call those ground pounders. And so amazing and sometimes the most useful tool. And a lot of times, if you go out with a dog, they can search a similar area very quickly using their nose. One thing we have noticed is that a ground pounder can walk right by a person who is unconscious, sick or has passed away, and they may not even see them because they're covered with branches, or they have darker clothing on, if it's evening, etc. And so a dog's nose is this just amazing tool that it doesn't matter if the person is covered up or if it's dark, they're going to use that nose and they're going to find them. So we're so visual, but they're so, you know, into their nose, they're so olfactory.
Chrissy 6:24
Yeah, that's one of their most amazing senses. What's the, like, 160 million? What? What is the
Speaker 1 6:32
I'm sorry, I don't know the exact, but yes, it is, like, millions and millions. Um, it's more than we can probably even imagine. You know how sensitive their nose is and and how that works, and so it's just such a miracle that we can work with them the way they that we do, right?
Chrissy 6:48
So can you walk us through the training process of teaching like a dog human partnership of search and rescue, and maybe what that looks like, and kind of guesstimate like the cost, like the hours and cost of that process.
Speaker 1 7:03
Oh, my goodness, yes, it is. It is a lot of work, it is a lot of money, it's a lot of time. But again, it is worth it. And so there's a couple of different kinds. There's air scent dogs, and you do train them in a little bit of a different way. Air scent means, if you can imagine somebody giving you a big football field, and maybe there's some trees on part of the football field, and they say, Clear this area, so you literally just walk the area with your dog, and you check to see if there is a person in that area. And we're using the wind, and the dog is putting their nose basically up into the wind and trying to seek out human scent. And then there's trailing, which is we go to the where the person was last seen, whether it was a campground or their car, and they get a scent article, so something that smells like the person, and they try to follow the path that the person took walking away. And so those are both great tools to use, and sometimes we all, you know, we work together doing that. And then there's water recovery of drowning victims, and then, of course, human remains detection. So there are several things that you can train for, and depending on the area that you work in, or how your dog works. You may be certified in a couple of those things, but that's over time. So you start with a dog who wants to work, so they have to have that energy and that drive to work. Sometimes people think that when they see a dog with a lot of energy and they're bouncing all over, and they say, Oh, that dog would be a great search and rescue dog, and that certainly is part of it, but they have to have the ability to tap into that drive and build focus, and so they have energy, and they're running around, but they are specific, doing their job. They're not distracted. They are doing their task and working with you. And so it definitely takes that energy, but it takes a lot of other pieces that you build over time. So you start with a puppy or anything where they don't know anything, and you just start very, very simple, and you build from there, and you go at that dog's pace, which is really important, they set the pace, and you are working with them and watching them very carefully. And that's part of building your relationship, is that you're not making it too hard for them. And you're you're doing that slowly, you know, doing that over time, and it can take up to 18 months or two years before a dog is able to take its first test.
Chrissy 9:49
I was going to say, so it's a lot of layering, right, layering and building on small steps to get them to that point. Oh, I think a lot of people think that if. It's a bloodhound or a border collie or whatever, they already know what to do. And so it's like they have that genetic, you know, trait that you just build off of, and you build layers of teaching, and like you said, going at their own pace, and it's a partnership, and you don't want to force it, because I know you teach it too, right?
Niamh 10:21
Yes, I'm an evaluator and instructor for sardus, which is a national organization of group that certifies handlers. So it's a great organization. And I was part of the Colorado chapter for six years, and I'm still part of them. My dogs are certified through them, but I'm in Idaho now, but they have teams certified all over the country. They're a great, great place. They started by Anne Wickman, who is a FEMA handler. She went to 911 she's amazing, amazing trainer, amazing dog person, and she started this, this organization, and it grew from there, and it's important to have standards and uniform tests that dogs have to take, and they have to be recertified every two years, so you can see if they're still wanting to do the job, or if they're maybe getting a little tired or there's something physically wrong with them, it's always good to check in and keep training up to those standards. But you can see if dogs need a career change or they need to retire, it's important to watch for that stuff too, because you really have to honor what they're capable of and what they want to do, because they don't know our human projections on all of these things that we do with our dogs. We have so much skin in the game in terms of our mental commitment to it, but we have to really honor that the dogs are coming from a different place, and to them, it is a fun game, and they get their reward, they get a toy, they get food, they get praise. And so if they're not into the game, and we're not making it fun enough for them, they won't want to do it, just like any kind of dog training. You know, we have to make it worth their while.
Chrissy 12:17
Yeah, definitely. So when you're teaching these, you know, search and rescue groups, partnerships, obviously you gotta, you know, we have to teach the dog how to do it. But when you certify, like the partner, the the team, what do you, what do you help a human do in regard to that side of the partnership?
Speaker 1 12:37
Yeah, so you take, for an example, just a quick example of of what you would do for layering is when they're little, when they're a puppy or a young dog, you would just have somebody run away and hide behind a tree or the side of a building, and you have the puppy watch them run away, and then they go and they find that person, and they get a reward. And then, over time, you make it a bigger distance, you have them search for longer and then you teach something called a refined and a trained final response. And so with an air scent dog, they will find the person, and then they will come back and tell you that they have found the person by giving you a specific behavior. My dog does a bark, and so they come running back. They look at you, they bark at you, and you say, show me. And they go back into the subject, the person who's hiding. And they do that. They might have to do that a number of times because you might be far away. I mean, they range pretty far away when they're searching, and so they, you bring them in, and they get their reward. So when you're talking about layering, just when you talked about that previously, it's, it's a lot of steps to get to that spot, but it's just small things over and over and over and making it fun each time. I remember when I first started seeing people doing search and rescue, I first started seeing the dogs, and to me, it looked like magic. Like, how do they get the dogs to do this? Like, that's just it seemed way beyond my capability to do this. And so, yes, when you're talking about the genetics, yes, you do have those genetics, but you have to shape it, and you have to get and it is complicated, but you just take it step by step, and then you finally get there.
Chrissy 14:32
Yeah, definitely. And we'll talk more about kind of the the dog and the human as a team a little bit later, but it's definitely a team. There needs to be so much trust and stuff like that, and we'll talk about that in a minute, but discuss this a tiny little bit. But was, is there a particular kind of character or personality trait that makes for a wonderful search and rescue dog and partner and team?
Niamh 14:56
I think that generally working dogs. Labs who are bred to work. So labs and German Shepherds, bloodhounds, Border Collies, they are wanting to do that, and that part of enrichment in their brain is to do something that is similar to what they've been bred for. So retrieving or hurting, or you can you shape that into finding people? And we do look at dogs temperament and their drive. They have to have this drive to find person. But you might test that by putting a toy out and seeing if they will just keep on going and not stop, not start to sniff things like the bushes or walk away if they just have to find that toy, and they'll search for several minutes to get it. That's a pretty big natural drive that you can you can use for for training and give them a job that they will like. But yes, we will test puppies. And so, for example, my boyfriend and I were just down in New Mexico, looking at some some puppies, and we brought a couple out to an unfamiliar place right next to the breeders house, and and she was watching, thought this was so fun to watch. And we had my boyfriend run behind a barrel that was in a horse arena, and it was just from a few feet away. So of course, you again, not making it too hard. But we saw which of these three boys, this little boy, bird or colleagues, wanted to find him. And so two of them were you really had to coax them. You had to call them. We had to. And they just seemed a little timid. And then there was one he ended up taking, of course, who was jumping out of our arms to get down on the ground and to run behind and get to that person and get a treat. And you're like, here I am. And so that's just, that's who you're gonna get and train, because they're more likely to want to do it?
Chrissy 17:02
Yeah, definitely. And I, we were just talking about this earlier, but I remember when you were helping me with another client, and Clyde was there, and he was just how, like, I don't like, 16 weeks old or 10 weeks old. He was just a little baby puppy, and he came everywhere with you. And so I was like, let's do a search and rescue game. And you're like, yeah. And the snow was really deep, and I went and hid behind a tree. And he was like, I have video of it, but he was just like, running after me and finding me, and he was all over it. So it was really cute. So that kind of thing then, right? Yeah.
Niamh 17:40
Yeah. So, you know, you think of puppy energy and working dogs energy is beyond energy. And so they're not so much fun in the house sometimes. But you take a kind of dog like that home thinking, I know what I really I'm prepared that I have to do all of this work with them. And so yes, Clyde needed to come with me, and he needed to get out and find you or someone else and run around. And that's what they need every day. So it's part of their learning, and they're moving forward with their learning, but it's also part of what they need for enrichment, right?
Chrissy 18:13
Definitely, or it can cause a lot of problems at home, like you said,
Niamh 18:17
Yes.
Chrissy 18:20
So is there a certain style of training in your approach that you use, you said, toys and food? So it sounds like you do a lot of reinforcement, right?
Niamh 18:30
Definitely, positive reinforcement. And puppies, you know, they have such short attention spans, so you have to really look at that puppy that day, and then later even that dog that day, and see where are they at when you get them out of the car, do they have attention to look like they want to do it? And so you're just watching them so carefully and then setting them up for success, so making sure that you might put a tiny bit of pressure on them make something a little bit harder, but in a way that they can gain confidence and get their reward, which is again determined by the dog. So literally, with puppies, I'll have a toy in one hand and treats in the other, and I hold it out and see what do you want today? And so sometimes they'll start with treats and go to a toy. But we have to, we have to do what's going to be the most reinforcing for that dog to make it fun, if that's their paycheck,
Chrissy 19:33
yeah, the motivation is key. So what do you do if they quote, unquote, do something wrong?
Niamh 19:40
That means that I made it too difficult, and, you know, not blamingly, like it's not it's not a bad thing. We're all human, and we're making mistakes, and dogs are making mistakes, and it's better if that happens at training then on a search. You know, you have their dogs. They're not robots. And so if we make a mistake. Week, then we probably made it like very that silly example of the person right behind the tree. We put the puppy too far away, or it's bad weather, or there's very tall grass, and they can't see all sorts of things. So we're just constantly sort of taking data in our head and saying, Do we may need to make this shorter. Does the puppy need a nap? Do we need to come out later? Do they not feel good? Are they too distracted and we're just readjusting all the time? And that's how you get to success. But I think probably what I really have come to understand is that they need so many reps, just because we understand something doesn't mean that they've rehearsed it. You know, that where they've been able to demonstrate understanding of that to a certain, you know, high percent. So then we can move on to the next level. And I think that's a common thing with dog training, where we think the dog understands something, but they they need to do so many more repetitions before we can layer on something harder?
Chrissy 21:04
Yeah, the layers are huge, the needs of a search and rescue dog and team, you know, let's just talk about physically, mentally, emotionally and then, like that soul level, kind of those needs so physically, obviously you're going to they're using their body so much that you need to make sure that they are physically healthy. How do you make sure that you know that they're physically doing?
Speaker 1 21:29
we take training logs, so we're writing down everything every time they work. I have a little section that's welfare, which is their appetite, their energy, out of the car, sleep after did they look like they were very sleepy? Did they look like they were uncomfortable in some way, interest in their reward? So I'm just kind of taking these little measures to see if there's something that I need to address. And so physically, we do have issues, because they're very, very high energy, very brave. I don't know. I'm not sure if that's the word, but in new environments, they'll just go if they take it in stride, and they keep going. And so they might run over dead, fall and hurt their skin. They might overdo it and be very stiff. There's something called swimmer's tail that dogs might get where they're very, very, very sore, and so we have to watch out for them, and then give them enough downtime after that before we put them back to working. So that's physically I walk my dogs where they can be off leash at least 30 minutes running off leash every single day to build up their strength and their stamina for mine too, and to make sure that they'll be fit enough and then get some nice exercise and calm down, just like we all do when we get when we have exercise mentally, we have to make sure that they are confident after they they get in the car and they come out next time, are they looking around like they are happy to get going? Are they interested in doing things? Their body language? Happy, tail wagging, wanting to see people, wanting to get their toy. Or do they look like they're afraid of something, or they're just lower energy. So we're assessing that because that's, you know, our observation of dog body language is how we understand where they are mentally so because they can't talk to us, so that's why we're so carefully watching their body language in different contexts.
Chrissy 23:39
the the soul level. When I talk about the soul level, like dogs, to me, are here. You know, they all have their own little purpose in life, whether it's to be, you know, to be a companion animal, to support a human, or for a human to support them. You know, if a dog is here to do search and rescue, I think that is their purpose. And are they living? Are they doing that, you know? Are they doing that and loving it? And so to me, you know, if they are mentally and emotionally into it, and they're doing their purpose, you know, the search and rescue, then I think that's a huge part of it, too, the physical aspect. Do they do you do, like, any PT or massage or anything like that to help with recovery?
Niamh 24:27
Yes, I've definitely. I've had my dogs have acupuncture before. I've done canine massage before, had somebody work with my dog doing that. I give adequate to my seven year old lab, and he seemed a little stiff to me about six months ago, and so I took him to a vet who did a lot of joint work and assessed him very, very carefully to see if his joints looked okay or if we needed to. For their tests. So we're trying to be, you know, they are athletes, but we're trying to be respectful of the fact that even though they have this high drive, if they're not kind to their bodies, or aware that they're beating up their bodies, they don't self regulate. We have to kind of do that for them. But yes, I've, I've used all of those different things, and it's great to have vets who really are on board with working dogs and and understand those needs. Yeah,
Chrissy 25:30
and I think just in general, for people that have very active dogs, if if they notice a change in their behavior, you know, their gait, their posture, their mental or emotional state, then you want to think about is something, are they not feeling well? And so it's good to track that just if you have, you know, a pet dog at home,
Niamh 25:52
there's so many aspects, because I didn't really start doing pet training until I had been doing working dogs for a long time. And so I love that it that informs my pet training, because I understand that dogs are capable of so much. And so I start by saying, like, oh my gosh, there's that nose and there's that brain and there's that energy, and I know that that could do some amazing things. And so you start off with a lot of optimism, and so then it's, just imagine, you know, how can we sort of tap into this and help this dog have a good life where, you know, I hate to say good behavior, because I don't really, I don't really like saying it that way. It's, it's a way to explain it to people so they understand it. But what we're looking for is like the dog is at peace, and the dog is balanced and has their needs met, and therefore will look, quote, unquote, like they have good behavior, but you're meeting the needs of that dog for them to be happy and settled.
Chrissy 26:56
Yeah, they're thriving in the human world. That is that we have so many expectations of them exactly. Yeah. So what's your favorite thing about search and rescue and your dogs? I
Niamh 27:08
just love having that job with my dog, where it's this amazing connection, where you know, you get out of the car and that's literally, that's your teammate, and so you're looking at them, they're looking at you. And you know them so well. You know, when you're searching an area you're watching, oh, their nose went up in the air. I think that they're let me go over this way, and we're following them. So if they are searching, you know that example of the football field, if we're going back and forth and back and forth, sort of mathematically, walking through and gritting through it, but your dog all of a sudden their nose goes up, and they just go for it, and they're moving away. They have smelled something, and so you follow them, and so they're leading that. And I think it's so good for a dog to have the confidence to know that I have this job, and my human's going to back me up here and follow me, and I'm half of this to get to the person who's missing. So I love the fact that I can ask my dog for their opinion, and they can give me their opinion and I listen to them. So I think that's nice for dogs to be able to have opinions and have those opinions be heard.
Chrissy 28:21
Yeah, I love that. So if a person has a family dog and they want to get into like, the beginning of search and rescue, just just for fun, like his skills, or as enrichment, what, what do you say is the best way for them to start
Niamh 28:35
enriching their pet dog or starting search and rescue.
Chrissy 28:40
So for now, it's just more for fun as enrichment. Okay?
Niamh 28:44
I mean, there's so many cool things to do in terms of getting some formal training. You could go to a scent work class in your area. But if you're starting at home in your backyard, just take a toy and hide the toy and have your dog look for the toy. And again, you want to heavily control it by making sure there's not a lot of other distractions around and you're not expecting them to try to find it. If it's buried two feet under the ground, you know you're making it. You make it easy for them to get a win, and then the more wins that they get, then you can make it harder, or you can hide several toys, but start off really, really easy, and go from there, because the more that they have that win and play with you, and they get your attention, which I think is a huge part of that for dogs, is Getting the reward, but also getting you so engaged with them, over time, you'll be able to work for longer and longer and longer, and that is so good for the dog to build that that focus in their brain and their dopamine and everything that they would get from from working like that. So just easy, how. Food finding toys.
Chrissy 30:01
Yeah, it's engaging. That seeking system. And some dogs, they've never learned how to use their nose. They've never learned how to do that. So if you're starting out, I would say it's important that you have to guide them and teach them and set them up for success, and then really reward when they do find something like you said, with clay or a toy or a food, whatever is motivating for them.
Niamh 30:26
Yep, and sometimes they will like to find people like their their family members like hide and go seek, basically where they but in the beginning, you would have to let them see somebody you know duck behind an obstacle for them to go fine, because, as we know, you know, confusion is aversive, and so we want to make it really clear, even when we're playing games like that, because we don't want to discourage them and frustrate them. So we show them what to do, and then when they seem to understand it, and then we play it and then make it harder after that.
Chrissy 31:01
Yeah, yeah. A lot of dogs, when we're doing the nose work, we have to start off where they actually see me hide the thing, like they're we do a sit stay. They watch me hide the thing, and then I say, okay, and then they go. And so that's, that's how, like basic you have to start off. Yeah,
Niamh 31:22
so I do something kind of similar. But what I do is I will just walk a dog, whether it's on a leash or, you know, very, very loose, very loose, long line, and I have something hidden that's like, pretty stinky, so they'll notice it, and I'll walk them by it. And when I see their nose turn and you see, again from their behavior, that they're noticing it, I say yes, and then they get that reward. So we're putting them in the space of their brain where they're self teaching, they're they're noticing themselves. And I do like to do that with dogs, where I give them the space to sort of have that light bulb moment where I'm not micromanaging and directing every single tiny thing. I like dogs to have that where, oh, that's what they want. Oh, this is cool. I like it. And so, yeah. So just walking them by toys that are hidden, walking them by food, and then they get it, that's what they're supposed to do. And then you can back off and let them do it, because they they understand.
Speaker 2 32:27
Yeah, so you're shaping it too.
Speaker 1 32:29
Yes, exactly, exactly
Chrissy 32:33
you're shaping it. I like that too. So it's more just when they do the behavior, then you reinforce that. So, yeah, there's a there's few ways you can do that. So if someone were to seriously get into search and rescue, how would you suggest that they start that?
Niamh 32:50
I think that finding a team locally who are, you know, either affiliated with a sheriff's department or some sort of local group who are deployed by law enforcement or any emergency services and just inquire and be a subject for dogs. It's the easiest way to go about it, because we usually need new people, because part of that the training is and we all know when dogs are comfortable with certain things, but they're not being exposed to new things. They might that might look really different. So if they're finding the same family member or friend always at training, and then you put somebody new who smells different, or is a little kid or is wearing different kinds of clothing, and we do that during a search that might be, you know, too difficult for them, or you might get a different behavior. You might see some fearful or cautious behavior. So for somebody to come in and be a subject, that really helps, because that's a brand new person for the dogs, and then you learn. So I think it's a win, win. And then people can understand, because you can be involved in different ways. You could just continue to be a subject. You can eventually get a dog of your own. There's a lot of different ways to be part of it without having the full time commitment of getting a dog. And it's a good way to see because it is so much commitment. It's a good way to sort of like, you know, get your feet wet without jumping in,
Chrissy 34:23
right? Yeah. So do you have any special stories that you would like to share?
Niamh 34:31
And I have one story, it's kind of, I changed the names of the people, but I just need to be, you know, respectful, but we were called to find this person named Sasha, who was a mushroom Hunter. And so mushroom hunters can get turned around because they're looking for mushrooms and they're not looking for the trail in their lock, not looking how they got somewhere. And so that's sort of a frequent demographic. Big of somebody who might get lost. And so she had been out overnight, and her friends were worried, and they reported her missing. And so people were out looking for her, and we were getting more dog teams out. And so we heard a call over the radio where someone called in and said, I have someone named Sasha here, and she says she's a mushroom gatherer. The description that we were given of the person who was missing was this very tall woman. And so the person who found Sasha was confused, because she was this tiny, little woman. And so it so talked to her a little bit more and realize that this was Sasha's friend who was also called Sasha. And they, they used to refer to each other as big Sasha and little Sasha. So big Sasha was still missing, but little Sasha was wandering around trying to find her. And so we took her out, escorted her out, because we didn't want to be looking for two sashes and and then shortly after that, we were able to find big Sasha. So the two of them giving each other big hugs in the parking lot. Was so gratifying to see that and that they were both Okay, yeah, but it was, it was kind of funny, because we thought there's two sashas,
Chrissy 36:24
which dog helped with that.
Niamh 36:26
That was Quinn, my lab, who's seven. And so that was an example of changes of behavior, because one of my friends who has Weimaraners was out in a section her sector that she was searching was right next to mine, and so her dog had its nose up and wanting to go out of the sector they were assigned. And Quinn had his nose up and he wanted to go. And so if you looked at on a map, where the noses wanted to go was North. And so we were both saying, oh, let's go. We'll ask if we can go further north, because you never want to go somewhere where they they don't. The other part of the team doesn't know where you are. We're very, very safe and methodical about it, and so, but we were sort of re gathering ourselves and getting a break at base and wanting to go further north. And that was actually where the lady, where Sasha, ended up being, was an area north of us, and so it was just nice information from the dogs.
Chrissy 37:24
Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have any thoughts about kind of what your dogs have taught you? Any life lessons that you can think of that they've taught you?
Niamh 37:32
I'm training my sixth one now, and I wish I knew when I started. I wish I knew all the things that I know now, just like anything in life, right? But just to really try to to step back and let the dog give you information is something that I've learned over time, and not sort of have your plan, and the dog has to do your plan. And I think it's like that for pet dogs, or any dogs with training. You know, we have our idea of what we want to do, but our dog will show us if they're learning it or what pace they're learning it at, and you're going to have more success. And I think the more you try to tightly control a dog, the more they're going to slip through your fingers. I think you really need to if you're getting frustrated, you gotta take a deep breath and step back and maybe not even train that day, you have to sort of collect yourself and and be present in a good way. So, yeah, I think, and my dogs have just, they're such amazing souls. I mean, they'll do anything for you, you know, they'll just keep on working, and they'll try to find that person, and they'll work with you, and they're just such amazing beings. You know, we're so lucky to have them in our lives.
Chrissy 38:47
Yeah, I think a huge part of, and I said this before, is just that trust, that trust in that relationship with sometimes your dog might be doing something that you quite don't understand, and a lot of times when, when our dog does it, I just, I'm like, Okay, what are you trying to show me? What are you trying to tell me? You know, instead of forcing her and dragging her along, you know, I just, I'm like, Okay, show me what you're smelling or seeing or hearing that I can't that I can't sense. And so just building that trust that way is huge. And it seems like that would be super important with as a as a team, for you guys,
Niamh 39:28
oh yes, now you have to, you have to trust your dog. And actually, one of my friends back east was so funny for Christmas one year, we got these T shirts, and it was printed upside down, so when you looked down at your chest, it said, trust your dog.
Niamh 39:54
Yeah, exactly. And it really is, you know, that's we say that to each other all the time, like in training and. Because humans make a lot of errors. So we have it a plan, and we have subject and they we told them to hide in a certain spot, and they're hidden over in a different spot. This is a frequent thing you know, that you'll run into and your dog will want to go, and you'll say, well, it's not where I told the person to go. And your dog says, I don't care what you told them they're over here. And so we'll say, trust the dog. Trust your dog. So we say that to each other all the time,
Chrissy 40:30
yeah, I love that. So do you have anything else that you would like to share with our audience?
Niamh 40:36
I think just dogs are capable of so much, and you have this like amazing being in your house and just seeing what they can do in terms of using their nose and working with you and interacting in that way, having that common language of that play that game really does help build your relationship, and that generalizes to other parts of your relationship, and so just kind of tapping into that with your dog, it is is so positive for both of you.
Chrissy 41:11
Yeah, like you said, they're capable of so much, and I think, you know, a huge part of it is the human side stepping up to what their dog is capable of. I think a lot of times we as humans don't realize that we need to step up our game so that we can figure out, you know, what the dog's needs are, or what they're trying to tell us. Yeah. I think that's a huge important aspect to talk about,
Niamh 41:38
yes. And it's, you know, just a few minutes of training, and it is, you know, fun for us too. If you just basic enrichment where you're hiding things or hiding a person, playing hide and go seek, your dog will be so grateful to you for letting them use their nose and spending that type of time with them. I think it just, it's so strengthening for your relationship.
Chrissy 41:59
Yeah, yeah. So if people want to get a hold of you, how can they connect with you?
Niamh 42:05
So I have a website, and it's canine connection. CO, yes, that's my website, and I'm happy to talk to anyone about search and rescue. I do that all the time. And then, of course, I have my my pet training that I do also
Chrissy 42:24
amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and knowledge and everything about search and rescue and partnerships.
Niamh 42:32
Yeah, you're welcome.
Chrissy 42:34
I hope you enjoyed this episode, and I hope you're enjoying the special The Dogs of our lives, summer working dog series, I'd be so grateful if you could share with other dog and animal lovers so I can continue to spread the good word about kind, ethical dog guardianship on many different levels. You.
